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C. Baskin – Un-Finished Convo

October 13, 2013 in Admin

Carole Baskin’s Post – Unanswered Questions
January 4 at 3:51pm

By Linda Sue in: Discussions to Benefit Exotic Animals •

Please note: Unrelated topic comments by other users were deleted to shorten the post.
All non – factual comments are opinions and beliefs.

Thanks for stopping by CB, it was a pleasure speaking with you, however, it is not a big surprise you did not come back with any answers or facts, then left the group.

Carole Baskin’s Post:
Carole Baskin was added by Diane Gustafson.

Diane Gustafson Wow…Welcome Carole…you just missed Joe Exotic….he was in, started fights and got out. Just know you have people from both sides of the coin in here…most have been good people!
about an hour ago • Like • 3
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Linda Sue Welcome Carole Baskin!
about an hour ago • Like
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Linda Sue Are we addressing any issues here or just reading posts?
about an hour ago • Like
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Diane Gustafson Courtney just made one….scroll …
about an hour ago • Like
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Linda Sue No Diane I mean is Carole addressing any issues or just reading posts?
about an hour ago • Like
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Diane Gustafson ‎Carole, are you here now?
about an hour ago • Like
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Linda Sue ‎Carole Baskin, why do you continue to torture and kill innocent domestic rabbits when other Ethical rehabs do not?
59 minutes ago • Like • 1
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Linda Sue ‎Carole Baskin, can you explain why it takes you over a year to rehab a bobcat when in fact it only takes 6-8 months?
58 minutes ago • Like • 1
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Linda Sue Let me know when you would like to chat.
58 minutes ago • Like • 1
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Diane Gustafson Hopefully Carole will address your issues. She has always talked to me about anything I wanted.
57 minutes ago • Like
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Carole Baskin Linda Sue, I have been rehabbing bobcats for many years and have posted how we do it, why we do it and all of the answers to your allegations about rabbits online at BigCatRescue.org All you have to do is search rehab or rabbits and you will find the pages. What experience in rehabbing bobcats do you have? Where could I find documentation of your methods?
55 minutes ago • Like • 3
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Linda Sue ‎Carole Baskin, I have read all your postings and I also have worked at 3 wildlife centers that raise and release bobcats successfully, none live feed. I have sent you letters from other wildlife rehabs that also do not live feed however, you have never responded as to why you continue this barbaric unnecessary feeding protocol. I am sure you have also read them on Cause page against you?
50 minutes ago • Like
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Carole Baskin All of the better facilities do live feed carnivore who must be released back to the wild and the national affiliation of wildlife rehabbers condone the practice as well. If you had read the responses I sent you and posted online, you would know that. Who were the rehabbers that you worked with, specifically?
49 minutes ago • Like • 2
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Carole Baskin http://bigcatrescue.org/2011/feeding-rabbits-to-bobcats-at-big-cat-rescue
48 minutes ago • Like • 1
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Linda Sue Carole, you have never sent me any emails, the only thing I received from you is a warning from facebook. I do not agree what your saying as fact can you please reference the National Affiliation of Wildlife rehab guidelines and not the out dated WERC guidelines for bobcat rehab?
46 minutes ago • Like
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Carole Baskin google’s NAW and live prey and got: http://books.google.com/books?id=bhQmuC2U9w4C&pg=PA169&lpg=PA169&dq=International+Wildlife+Rehabilitation+Council+live+prey&source=bl&ots=TaJrQYzRvz&sig=SEyTPTccI0NW1J8b6nHR69cNyfo&hl=en&sa=X&ei=K74ET7O1BsXptgeUuPT6Dw&ved=0CDgQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=International%20Wildlife%20Rehabilitation%20Council%20live%20prey&f=false

Hand-rearing birds
books.google.com
Hand-Rearing Birds will provide the reader with a guide to the best methods of h…See More
44 minutes ago • Like • 1 •
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Linda Sue Hold on please.
44 minutes ago • Like
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Linda Sue Why are you referencing wild bird feeding protocols?
43 minutes ago • Like
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Linda Sue Please advise.
43 minutes ago • Like
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Linda Sue Please post some facts here, and I will be happy to reference them. I will post a couple letters for you to review.
42 minutes ago • Like
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Tom Imke Kathryn, they live feed their natural food. Domestic rabbits are not their natural food and don’t carry the scent of their natural food. Teaching them to seek that scent teaches them to go hunting in neighborhoods where they find the scent of domestic rabbits, like my house. The only thing live feeding teaches is the kill, but if ued to teach hunting, it is learning to expect a wild rabbit to walk up to it and bump noses. Some training.
42 minutes ago • Unlike • 1
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Carole Baskin This link refers to all types of rehab and has a great discussion on the topic. Meanwhile, I notice that you are not forth coming with the legitimacy of the places, specifically, where you rehabbed bobcats. http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache%3A27DVvB5O3C8J%3Awww.theiwrc.org%2Fjournal%2Fjournal30%281%29.pdf+&cd=4&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
REhAbILITATION
webcache.googleusercontent.com
41 minutes ago • Like • 1 •
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Linda Sue With all due respect the topic is about bobcats not wild birds and the facilities I work at are of no concern to this topic.
40 minutes ago • Like
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Linda Sue Please post the guidelines you reference that promote feeding live DOMESTIC rabbits to wild animals. Again, I will reference some letters from other centers if you like.
38 minutes ago • Like
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Carole Baskin Linda Sue, you aren’t paying attention. Refer back to the page on our site and it will answer any allegations you are making about rabbits. I have to go spread grass seed for the cats so they have soft winter grass for the season, so hopping off for now.
36 minutes ago • Like • 1
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Linda Sue I am waiting for your reference from the above source you mentioned that promotes the live feeding of domestic rabbits to wild animals in rehab?
36 minutes ago • Like
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Linda Sue Carole if you had ever answered that question I would not be asking you now, Please advise where I may read the reference you mentioned above?
35 minutes ago • Like
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Bobbi Corona Carole, question to your above post, you mention “better facilities” – can you please define what is a better facility and what is not, so we understand?
35 minutes ago • Like
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Diane Gustafson I think she left for now, peeps.
35 minutes ago • Like
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Linda Sue Please do not speak for Carole Baskin. Kim those are outdated WERC guidelines, can you please reference where they promote feeding live DOMESTIC rabbits to bobcats?
33 minutes ago • Like
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Linda Sue Please let Carole and I speak to each other without answering questions for her.
33 minutes ago • Like
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Diane Gustafson You must have missed her last post, Linda. She had to leave and go “spread seed grass”.
32 minutes ago • Like
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Linda Sue Right, let me know when she comes back, I am anxious to read the national affiliation of wildlife rehabbers document that promotes the feeding of live Domestic Rabbits to wild animals.
30 minutes ago • Like
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Diane Gustafson And yes, I believe Linda is most concerned about the feeding of rabbits that are domesticated rabbit, not wild ones.
26 minutes ago • Like • 1
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Linda Sue ‎Carole Baskin, I appreciate you coming her to chat, here is one reference I mentioned, as soon as you post your fact for me backing up your above statement I will be happy to post another.

Friday, April 8, 2011 3:33 PM

Hi Linda –
Thanks so much for caring about all the animals. I can’t speak for what works best for other facilities, and it is difficult not to place judgment, but I think this issue really is a serious one. Here is what I can tell you about how we feed rehabilitating bobcats here at CROW. We don’t use any live prey for feeding bobcats. When we feed them, the staff is diligent about making a disconnect between humans and food: hiding the food, placing in different spots in the cages, trying to introduce novel items, and making the bobcats “work” for the food by finding it, not by killing it. I feel very strongly that the vast majority of our patients are very instinctual, and don’t need the live prey stimulus to tap into their wildness or train them to be hunters. Just as we don’t need to teach baby birds to fly or otters to swim – they are incredibly instinctual.

Nearly all rehabilitating bobcats here eat well; they are fed (frozen) rats, mice, chicks, cat chow, and different kinds of fish, and we have had a number of successful releases – both following trauma and with babies that have been orphaned.

Our use of live food is extremely limited (less than 1% of our patients)…rarely a persnickety bird will get a live minnow to stimulate appetite, for example. We don’t use any live prey for raptors either, which I know many places do. I don’t feel that the white mouse or domestic rabbit as prey is a true test of hunting ability, as those aren’t the same prey that these predators will find out in the wild – and the act is far from fair to the mouse or rabbit. I feel the same way about these as the bobcats…I feel that they have the instincts to be hunters and don’t need us to teach them.

We have all made tremendous commitments to animals; at CROW we take pride in offering respect and compassionate care to all species. It breaks my heart to think of how these rabbits must feel when placed into a predator’s cage.

Hope this helps,
Amber

Amber McNamara, DVM, CVA Clinic Director Clinic for the Rehabilitation of Wildlife, Inc.
23 minutes ago • Like
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Bobbi Corona Let me know if Carole comes back and answers my and your question Linda Sue, I have a couple things need to finish in the office
23 minutes ago • Like
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Linda Sue Thank you Bobbi, I hope she comes back I have a lot of unanswered questions I would like to ask her.
22 minutes ago • Like
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Diane Gustafson OMG…think how nice it will be to have a civil conversation…think where we could all go helping the animals! Pressing our noggins together….
19 minutes ago • Like • 1
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Linda Sue I would like nothing more Diane.
19 minutes ago • Like
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Tom Imke Kathryn, It is how I got involved with these groups. I came across a video on tube that was posted by BCR where Ms. Baskin was interviewed in front of a cage containing Moses and Bailey and watched to my horror as a live rabbit was thrown into the cage. Moses and Bailey are not there for rehab, they are permanent residents. Then I discovered their FB page containing pictures of their staff on a golf cart smiling as they held beaten dead and bleeding rabbits awaiting their feeding to the cats. Comments by them and their followers were as pleasant a the person that said that he always felt that the prey cage should have a sign saying the Hay kids, Easter is cancelled. There were dozens of these posts and pictures. This is why I have trouble being civil with anyone backing BCR. They came out with their explanation of only live feeding rehabs and how difficult it is for them to do after rabbit rescues and followers made the spam hit the fan for them. They didn’t remove the u-tube video until they were finally ordered to remove it under the animal cruelty in videos law. We have the video and screen shots of the FB pages if you are really interested.
18 minutes ago • Like • 1
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Tom Imke Kathryn, I understand what you mean. Having seen videos slanted to make a point for one side or the other, but the video I saw was made by and posted by BCR, so I find it hard to ignore, and I saw the FB pictures and comments. It makes me crush my keyboard to have seen it and then read the excuses and denials after they had been removed.
12 minutes ago • Like
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Linda Sue ‎Diane Gustafson, please let me know if any factual references are posted by Carole Baskin. To my knowledge the claims made above have no merit.
9 minutes ago • Like
• Diane Gustafson OK, Linda – you know I will keep you informed if you are not here…please do the same for me. Trying to wrap up work right now.
about an hour ago • Unlike • 1

Linda Sue Here is another ethical and humanitarian reference for you Carole Baskin, Is The National Bobcat Rescue and Research Foundation a “Better Facility” in your opinion?

Thursday, April 7, 2011 3:23 PM

Hello,

I would be happy to assist, however, I am tied up through Saturday. We do not use live prey here. Their natural instincts take care of that. We do, however, place small bowls of dog food and mouse food so that the wild rodents will enter the cages on their own and have a natural fighting chance.

We ONLY work with Bobcats and other native species. (no big cats). If you would still like our protocol, just let us know. We would be happy to help. Thanks

Valeri Marler
Chief Operating Officer
The Wildlife Center at Crosstimbers Ranch
www.crosstimberswildlife.org

Executive Director
National Bobcat Rescue and Research Foundation
www.NBRR.org

The Wildlife Center at Crosstimbers Ranch (WCCR) – Home
www.crosstimberswildlife.org
City of Murphy Shoots and kills a caged bobcat. Read more about this sad inceden…See More
53 minutes ago • Like •


Linda Sue Reference on Cheetah rehab: Carole Baskin:

Date: Thursday, November 17, 2011, 12:03 PM

Dear Linda ,

We do not feed live animals to any of our cats.
We do not prepare any of our cats to be released in the wild but I do have personal experience with release of rehabilitated cheetah from the Trust of which I am a Trustee in S Africa and we did not do it there either. The cheetahs had no problem using their own instinct to hunt.

Christine

Carson Springs Wildlife Foundation and Sanctuary
49 minutes ago • Like • 1

Linda Sue ‎Carole Baskin, Can you please explain to me why you were feeding live domestic rabbits to Moses & Bailey, long time permanent residents of BCR that were never going to be released into the wild?

http://www.abcactionnews.com/dpp/news/region_hillsborough/animal-rescue-groups-collide-over-feeding-live-rabbits-to-rescued-cats

Animal Rescue groups collide over feeding live rabbits to rescued cats
www.abcactionnews.com
Big Cat Rescue says Florida bobcats need to be taught to huntand kill captive ra…See More
35 minutes ago • Like •

Rebecca Nyerges I also would like answers to this??? Who will step up and answer to this???
10 minutes ago • Like

Diane Gustafson ‎Rebecca – Carole Baskin joined our group. Hopefully she will be back later or tomorrow to answer.
5 minutes ago • Like

Linda Sue ‎Carole Baskin, Please feel free to email me as I would like to resolve these issues with you and also help connect you with rehabs who may share their ethical & humane feeding protocols with you. You stated you have been rehabbing bobcats for many years, yet only claim to have released 6 bobcats in those many years.

Factually, there are no domestic rabbits found in the wild, they are not a part of a wildcat diet and at best if your bobcats live, you are merely teaching them to hunt and kill domestic rabbits by scent in the back yards of families and farms as well as causing deliberate, intentional and unnecessary animal cruelty to the domestic rabbit who has no understanding or wild animal instincts to survive.

I would like to review the wildlife guidelines you have referenced that recommend feeding Live Domestic Rabbits to wild animals/big cats in rehab, however, I do not believe you can provide this reference for review. Can you also please answer my other questions and concerns regarding Moses & Bailey and the time it takes you to rehab bobcats?

To my understanding the word Sanctuary means providing a safe place for All animals.

Respectfully, Linda Sue
4 minutes ago • Like

Linda Sue

‎Carole Baskin, quote: “All of the better facilities do live feed carnivore who must be released back to the wild and the national affiliation of wildlife rehabbers condone the practice as well”.

Can you please reference the better facilities you speak about who feed live Domestic rabbits to rehabbing big cats?

I find nothing in the National Wildlife Rehabilitators Association (NWRA) Code of Ethics that references Live Feeds and NWRA does not have any legal or regulatory authority regarding rehabilitation practices or facilities but claims NWRA maintains integrity and professionalism for all NWRA members and fellow rehabilitators.

“A wildlife rehabilitator should strive to provide professional and humane care in all phases of wildlife rehabilitation, respecting the wildness and maintaining the dignity of each animal in life and in death”.

I fail to see NWRA condoning or promoting the inhumane treatment of live domestic rabbits, please advise.

NWRA Code of Ethics helpful in educating others with wildlife care. It can be found on our website at:

http://www.nwrawildlife.org/content/wildlife-rehabilitators-code-ethics

• Carole Baskin Linda Sue, you have mischaracterized the ABC video. Moses and Bailey were never fed live animals. The announcer starts out talking about them, but they had been too imprinted for release and we weren’t sure of their native origins, so it would have been illegal to release them. The video then cuts to us talking about one of our rehab bobcats eating live prey. When I refer to better facilities, I am speaking of those that are accredited. As for the rabbit photo that you and your kind like to post all over the place, those were rabbits that we buy frozen and the volunteers were smiling that their favorite cats were getting a treat that night; not about the fate of the rabbits. We love animals and many of us, including me and my family are vegetarians. Are you?
43 minutes ago • Like • 2

Linda Sue ‎Carole Baskin, I imagine the reporter needs lessons in writing so people do not mis-characterize his stories.

By the time you showed this video on ABC the 3 baby bobcats were all dead, how could you have been feeding them the live rabbits?
I did not personally watch your video Carole Baskin, I have no desire to watch intentional, deliberate and unnecessary animal abuse, I respect all animal life not just the ones I love most.

Please post the accredited facilities along with your reference to the NWRA statement that condones the live feeding of domestic rabbits to rehabbing bobcats.

My “kind” did not take a photo holding bloody beaten rabbits & proudly post it on the internet, that photo speaks for itself. Can you please explain why the rabbit on the right appears to be alive having its eyes wide open as well as its legs and body not limp? Also, frozen rabbits do not bleed from their ears, eyes and body unless they were killed inhumanely, if you would like letters stating those facts let me know.

I am a Vegan.

28 minutes ago • Like

Linda Sue I don’t believe that was me asking about the photo but since you ask me I answered. Thank you for your comments, looking forward to the answers to my other questions.

20 minutes ago • Like

Linda Sue ‎Carole Baskin, can you please answer the questions in timely manor, I believe my time is as valuable as yours.

10 minutes ago • Like

Linda Sue ‎Carole Baskin, please let me know when you have some time to talk. If you have any questions that are not personal, feel free to ask. I will check back for your responses, thank you for your time.Linda Sue

Linda Sue One more thing Carole Baskin:

• It is noted that the three Bobcats were deceased approximately one month before the initial complaint concerning the feeding of live prey was made, since the last of the three bobcats died on February 28, 2011, two weeks before this video and ABC Interview posted on 03/15/2011. Please Advise?

Even if the video were of the three bobcats from Alabama it is my opinion that you knew full well the 3 baby bobcats could never be released back into the wild because they were not from Florida, and, according to Alabama officials, they could not have been legally brought back to Alabama for release because there was no way to determine they were from Alabama.
Please let me know if you would like those facts posted.

Sadly, it is my opinion that you knowingly and willfully fed live rabbits to captive wildlife who would never be released in the wild, an unnecessary and vicious act of cruelty and torture, resulting in cruel death to the domesticated rabbits.
2 minutes ago • Like

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